18 May 2009

The "Spirit of Vatican I"

If anyone says that it is possible that at some time, given the advancement of knowledge, a sense may be assigned to the dogmas propounded by the Church which is different from that which the Church has understood and understands: let him be anathema.


First Vatican Council

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Nice try, but not applicable in this discussion. If this actually meant what you're trying to make it mean, then you better get to Rome right away and tell ALL OF THEM, starting with the pope, that VatII was an exercise in futility and is therefore null and void.

Just be prepared for the laughter.

Anonymous said...

Before you even respond to my previous reply, I'll give you a little help: The key word in your isolated quote from Vatican I is "dogma." The council participants were saying that the dogmas of the church are unchangable and wholly understood as they are. What you need to understand, however, is that not every word of magesterial teaching is dogma. Dogmas are those things we proclaim when we pray the Apostles Creed. And nothing will ever come along to change our understanding of those dogmas. Everything outside of dogma, however, is open to discussion. VatI, VatII, and all the other councils throughout the centuries have promoted many wonderful things that fall outside of the realm of dogma. And it is these non-dogmatic principles that we were debating previously.

Fenian said...

Timman-

You deserve a golf clap for this post. No, make that a standing ovation.

Thanks for making my day.

thetimman said...

Anonymous said:

"Everything outside of dogma, however, is open to discussion. VatI, VatII, and all the other councils throughout the centuries have promoted many wonderful things that fall outside of the realm of dogma."

...and unlike Vatican I, Vatican II was NOT a dogmatic council but a pastoral one and as Chesterton said, "Truths turn into dogmas the moment they are disputed" and there is NOTHING worth disputing in Vatican II. Yes, as you say, "many wonderful things that fall outside of the realm of dogma" are open to discussion IF they truly are "wonderful"!

A BRIT
IN
BANGLADESH

And the Word was made Flesh,
But does that really mesh,
With authentic faith and dialogue today?

‘Cause at Eucharistic meal,
Which is no big, bloody, deal,
We smile and our mistakes are washed away.

We gather round the table,
To hear a gospel fable
From Father Bob, the celebrant, divine.

Never kneels, he always stands
But he runs to shake your hands,
Then he sits a lot, perhaps a weakened spine.

The ladies and the girls,
Their ministry unfurls,
A Eucharistic minister’s sensation.

With servers and the cantor,
They have a playful banter,
Then bread and wine, it’s time for celebration.

As the people, we all sing
But the bells, they never ring,
For they fooled around with Words that made His Flesh…

For a Corpus? That’s too rough,
There’s no need for violent stuff,
That’s as welcomed as a Brit in Bangladesh!

Long-Skirts said...

thetimman said...
"Anonymous said:"

thetimman, "you are a better man than I am, Gunga Din." ;-)

thetimman said...

Long-Skirts,

Only because you are a lady.

Your devoted fan

Andy M. said...

Again, the damned anonymous posters.

Mr. anon,

Perhaps you could provide the context, and therefore demonstrate that timman's post was 'isolated'?