19 May 2009

This is Why Archbishop Burke was Right on the St. Stan/St. Cronan/Pretend Priestess Cabal

I am going to quote from Fr. Zuhlsdorf on the proceedings at Notre Dame on Sunday:

A great goal has been held up for us. Gaze with wonder upon the new calf. Our new goal is dialogue. Common ground is our promised land. There we will find healing from divisions and lots more talk. Endless dialogue and then more dialogue. Our side might not be able to say very much, but that is neither here nor there. It’s the goal of dialogue which is important.

But this dialogue must not be allowed to become mean-spirited. Forefend! We must not "demonize" – a favorite new word – anyone with their past records or the Church’s clear principles about the sanctity of human life.

In an era when emotion trumps reason, facts are just plain mean.

The progressivist side knows they will not win by arguments. They win by projecting the image of deep-caring, of brow-furrowed nuance, of struggling with those hard decisions.

Remember: If you will have first "struggled" you are thereafter justified in anything you chose.

So, Sunday was pretty black for Catholics who are waking up to a clearer Catholic identity in continuity with our Tradition. It was a great day for adherents of Catholic-lite, especially in the many long-subverted institutions of higher learning. They are sure to be revitalized.

__________________

Dialogued to death.

That is and has been the strategy of the anti-Catholic "Catholic". Dialogue. Empathize. Talk away, until every baby is killed, every altar is smashed, every Catholic dogma buried, and every Catholic leaves the pews.

The fundamental dogma of the progressive: Bow down before the god of myself.

Archbishop Burke understood that the disingenuous call to dialogue about unchangeable truths like the women's ordination issue-- which is only one example-- is a fruitless endeavor that exposes the souls of Catholics to mortal danger. There is no real dialogue from the progressives, they will simply drone on and simper until they prevail. And they seek to take down souls with them. Enough. The time is ripe to choose sides, for or against the Mystical Bride of Christ.

We need Bishops like Archbishop Burke. We need priests and laypeople who have the backbone to stand for Christ. We absolutely need leadership from our shepherds. The flock is under attack from within. The wolves are rampant. Their clothing may be low-grade polyester, but they are as dangerous as the Arians.

How many holy Popes had to sound the alarm about the scourge of modernists? When will we own up to the ecclesiastical disaster of the twentieth century? When will we respond to Christ's call to repair it? When will we stand up?

They are sucking the life out of the Church. When will we get serious about resisting them?

20 comments:

Fenian said...

Another great post.

As Catholics, we must choose a side. There is no gray area.

Anonymous said...

Where were you when we needed you 45 years ago? They showed us the door for saying what you wrote. "If you don't like it here, leave!" How many times did we hear that? So, one by one, we left, in the thousands.

Let the truth be known as it was and not as many would have you believe: we didn't stand a chance back then. The Modernists were (and still are) very organized. They maneuvred themselves into every conceivable edifice in the Church and took over. Also, when they came in, they made no bones about tossing everyone out who resisted them. They didn't care who they hurt. They took over. Everywhere.

And now we have Cutie and Weakland and their ilk further demoralizing and desensitizing us. Where's the outrage? Instead we give them a standing ovation and pledge our support.

You're right. There is no real dialogue with liberals. It's their way or the highway. They steal your car and offer you your muffler back. I've been listening to them for almost a half-century now. I am utterly bored with and by them.

What do you suggest we do?

StGuyFawkes said...

After more than 200 years American Catholics are still afraid of seeming different than anyone else.

The crowd applauding Obama at Notre Dame are basically "assimilatonists" who want a Catholicism that can be reduced to private preferences.

They remind me of German Jews like Hannah Arendt who embraced the cultural and moral goals of "Jewish assimilationism" thinking a new Judaism could give itself to the surrounding culture and incorporate the secular culture's values within itself. It was a rejection of a "tribal" or parochial Judaism.

It didn't work.

Learn brothers from our "older brothers in the Faith".

Assimilationism is dangerous whether Catholic or Jewish.

It kills.

thetimman said...

Anon, all we can do is to do our best, fortified with the sacraments and praying for the gift of fortitude. We must not shrink from the truth. We must promote it, advance it, and be prepared to suffer for it. If there is a sundering ahead, at least let us make clear that there is one, and give a beacon for others to see. Remember the army of Gideon, and that God winnowed that group to one so small that there could be no doubt as to the Author of His victory.

Numbers only matter to the extent that we pray for as many possible to get to Heaven. In no other way do they matter. Money, prestige, comradery, nor anything else, by themselves, matter. Choose the side of Christ and let's help rebuild this Church.

Not terribly original, of course. But the truth is a bracing thing. And it is compelling. Those who will hear it will respond.

Anonymous said...

"... unchangeable truths like the women's ordination issue-- which is only one example-- is a fruitless endeavor that exposes the souls of Catholics to mortal danger."
WOW! Women's ordination exposes Catholic souls to mortal danger? Seriously?

Directly aborting children - yes.

Invading foreign nations based on lies - yes. (Heck, why dialogue when we can drop bombs and instantly kill hundreds of thousands of 'them?')

Demonizing entire classes of people, e.g. Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Liberals - yes.

But letting prayer-filled women have a greater role in helping advance God's Kingdom? Letting women be ministers or priests like almost all other Christian churches? And that 'leads people to hell?' WOW!

Daniel Fink said...

"But letting prayer-filled women have a greater role in helping advance God's Kingdom?"

What woman had a greater role than Mary? And who was more deserving of the priesthood than Mary?
Was the God of the universe bound by the customs of the time in not ordaining her?
The sacramentality of our seperate but equal genders matters. The priesthood is more than a function, which a woman could do as well. The priest is an icon of Christ offering Himself to his Bride, the Church (Eph 5), par excellance at the representation of the Paschal sacrifice in the Eucharistic liturgy. The impossibility of a female assuming this iconic imagery ought then to be obvious.

Anonymous said...

Quick question: Did Fr. Zuhlsdorf and The Timman protest when Pope Benedict sent President Obama a congratulatory letter as the new US president? And when (not if) Pope Benedict and Obama meet, will the same level of protests be leveled directly at the Vatican?

Will your headlines read: "THE POPE DESCENDS INTO HELL AND DIALOGUES WITH OBAMA!"???

thetimman said...

Anon,

That is a specious argument. The Pope is the head of a sovereign nation-state, Vatican City, and as such has cause to meet with heads of state and carry on official correspondence. If he can handle meeting Castro, he can handle the Obama.

When he sends Obama an honor like the golden rose or a Papal Knighthood (assuming of course no repentence/conversion by the Obama), then yes, you may look here for some serious freaking out and just criticism of the act.

Anonymous said...

Timman,

WHAT? The Pope met and has dialogued with Castro? OMGosh! The Catholic Church is doomed!

Seriously, though. Don't you think the entire planet would have been better if President Bush had dialogued with pro-life Saddam Hussein instead of slaughtering over 100k, bankrupting America, seriously damaging international relations, all which has given birth to far more terrorists than before the war? IF only the US had listened to Pope JP II and dialogued .. instead of bombed.

But I get the idea from your blogs that it is better to demonize and villify than actually trying to communicate and understand. And as a Christian and a Catholic, that is truly sad.

Ora et labora said...

Being head of the vatican state doesn't require the pope to meet with anyone. He's choosing to correspond and meet with Obama. He could quite easily say, as many of our stellar bishops have (he is a bishop, too, after all) "I'm not talking to you because..."

The pope is also to be an example-setter for the bishops. So he must want them to be engaging in a civil dialogue with Obama, too.

Anonymous said...

I wish to encourage all those who access cyberspace to be careful to maintain and promote a culture of respect, dialogue and authentic friendship where the values of truth, harmony and understanding can flourish.

thetimman said...

Anon at 14:49,

I suppose that saying that someone "demonizes" people with whom they disagree is a form of "demonizing" them? I ought to start a drinking game on that word, as it is the progressive's word of the moment these days.

Athelstane said...

The fundamental dogma of the progressive: Bow down before the god of myself.Which brings to mind something Shelby Foote once said - more relevant today than it was three decades ago:

“That’s what’s done us in. Lawrence said, “The opposite of love isn’t hatred, the opposite of love is individuality.” The more we gained in individuality, the more we lost in personal satisfaction, in love. Marx and Freud, by identifying us to ourselves, have cost us more than we’ll perhaps ever be able to pay. Gone is the brimful joy of the cathedral worker of the Middle Ages, working away at something he would never see finished and with which no one would ever connect his name, Instead, we have this lifelong wrestling match with the over-demanding Self, which always wins and collects his due in dissatisfaction.” (Letter to Walker Percy, Nov. 7, 1974)

Ora et labora said...

Wanted to make sure I wasn't forgotten:

Being head of the vatican state doesn't require the pope to meet with anyone. He's choosing to correspond and meet with Obama. He could quite easily say, as many of our stellar bishops have (he is a bishop, too, after all) "I'm not talking to you because..."

The pope is also to be an example-setter for the bishops. So he must want them to be engaging in a civil dialogue with Obama, too.

Athelstane said...

Anonymous 16:16 (Pick a name. Please.):

WOW! Women's ordination exposes Catholic souls to mortal danger? Seriously? It certainly does not expose them to sacramental graces.

Anonymous said...

-“I suppose that saying that someone "demonizes" people with whom they disagree is a form of "demonizing" them? I ought to start a drinking game on that word, as it is the progressive's word of the moment these days.” – Timman 05-20-09-17:15

-“Are we still set to be hospitality greeters at St. Cronan's this Sunday at 10:00 a.m.?” – KC 05-14-09-23:15

-“...I don't want pig-blood thrown on me by the hospitality commitee (sic) of some local progressive faith community, eh KC?” – Timman 05-15-09-09:45

Interesting twist on the word, Timman. As one of the ‘pagans’ formerly attending St. Cronan, as well as a supporter of the ‘witches’ that ‘infect’ St. Cronan by participating in Mass,( words used by you and your blogsite ‘community’), for you and your supporters to accuse progressives of casting calumny is disingenuous at best. Over the last year or so, who has been doing the ‘demonizing’?

If you or any follower of the Traditional Mass were to come to Mass at St. Cronan you would be treated as any visitor to our Service; with welcome and with respect.

Not with venom and pig’s blood.


“…the fact that we now have the eyes of the Archdiocese on our blog has inspired me to show extra kindness and civility in what I write.” – Timman 05-14-09 – 21:08

Interesting concept,Timman. But at this point in ‘the game’ – only a concept.

thetimman said...

Thank you, still anonymous poster, for the trip down memory lane. I will point out that I didn't write the last quote you attribute to me, but no matter.

I don't recall ever using the terms 'witch' or 'infect' or any derivation of them. I am not responsible for the turns of phrase of any commenter, whether pro-, re- or de- gressive.

But no matter. If your essential point is that I have written that the heterodox and contumacious activities of the St. Cronan community are a disgrace to the local Church, that is entirely true. And I say that in charity, because such activities lead souls away from Christ's Church. Tell me, does St. Cronan's outreach to homosexuals ever teach them that sodomy is a sin condemned by natural law, scripture and sacred Tradition? Does it ever tell the women-led liturgy group that their misguided goal of Roman Catholic priesthood is an ontological impossibility. Does it live the truth taught by St. Ignatius of Antioch that where the Bishop is, there is the Catholic Church? Does it seek to end the neo-pagan practices of reiki or the liturgical abuses of its Masses?

These are matters of substance. I don't demonize you or those who believe as you do. I will continue to point out where your beliefs and practices cease to be Catholic. If you weren't a self-identified Catholic, I wouldn't feel the need to point that out.

StGuyFawkes said...

My Dear Anon. of 20 May, 2009 18:56

You quoted the Timman as having said,

"…the fact that we now have the eyes of the Archdiocese on our blog has inspired me to show extra kindness and civility in what I write.”

That was me. St. Guy. I'm the trash talker around here. Not Tim. I'm the one who has to work extra hard not to be cruel. Not Timman.

So you may address that particular charge of hypocrisy to me.

In any case I'm all too happy to be around the folks at St. Cronan's. I'm couldn't find anyone more enjoyable to be around.

However, please ANON, do try and distinguish between "demonization" and an honest laugh at St. Cronan's hijinks.

For instance. A recent St. Cronan's bulletin contained this eye catcher which no sane person could not split a gut over:

"Creation Story: Forming a New Ecological Consciousness” will be
held from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday, May 16, 2009, at Maria Center on the campus of the School Sisters of Notre Dame motherhouse, .....Recognizing the importance of ecological awareness and action, the sisters are offering this opportunity to explore the meaning of Genesis and the New Universe Story. The program will help participants deepen their Earth spirituality and find ways to live more sustainably. The presenter,
Sharon Zayac, OP, HAS A MASTER'S DEGREE IN EARTH LITERACY and is the director of Jubilee Farm, a sustainable center for ecology and
spirituality outside Springfield, Ill." (MY EMPHASIS)

Dear Anon,

If God were a novelist and He were drunk he couldn't come up with stuff like this. Note that Sister Sharon Zayac, OP has a degree in "Earth Literacy".

Call me crude but I can't help but think that means she reads entrails and smokes a peace pipe in a sweat lodge.

(Or is this just a fancy way of saying she menstruates and walks barefoot.)

Let's all have a sense of humor. It keeps the demons away.

Yours in Jest,

St. Guy

Anonymous said...

By the way, the quote above, repeated below, is directly from Pope Benedict. To make his point, he spoke this in English so that no words might be lost.

It should be a good guide for St. Guy, The Timman, and all the rest of us.

"I wish to encourage all those who access cyberspace to be careful to maintain and promote a culture of respect, DIALOGUE and authentic friendship where the values of truth, harmony and understanding can flourish."

Emphacis is mine.

StGuyFawkes said...

Dear Anon,

In truth it is best that all of us dialogue in such a way to promote truth and understanding.

Harmony may be too much to ask even if it's asked for by His Holiness.

I hope you are not suggesting that it's disrespectful to laugh at the foibles of our fellow Catholics.

Call me the snark of Catholic cyberspace but I still can't help but laugh at the idea of "EARTH LITERACY" as an advanced degree.

You probably can't help but laugh either.

As for the views of Pope Benedict, I'm betting it would take about two minutes for me to Google up a quote from his holiness denouncing the creeping pantheism of the God as Gaia movement which so many of our women Religious have fallen into.

BUt I'll accept your criticism with humility. No harm no foul. Sorry to have been a little edgy.

Still "Earth Literacy" does grate my ears.

Yours,

St. Guy