23 June 2009

The Playbook

If you are Catholic but don't particularly like the more inconvenient Catholic teachings, just post a comment where you accuse me of some "Rovian" plot or of being a Republican. This will spare you any real debate or pangs of conscience and save everyone a lot of time.

Oh wait... you're already doing that.

Never mind.

10 comments:

Fenian said...

Timman-

Those posters are just acting in "The Spirit of Vatican II" (tm). As we all know, the "right" to hold hands during the Lord's Prayer and clapping while in church is more important than the lives of unborn children. Jeez, get with the program.

Also, just remember that when anyone uses the term "neo-con" in an argument, they usually cannot intellectually defend their position.

scott said...

Seems to me that both camps here have their lists of "inconvenient Catholic teachings." No one appears willing to embrace the WHOLE of what our church teaches. That would be too radical, too Christ-like.

We all seem to have our favorite bits and love entertaining ourselves by arguing about whose favorites are more important.

The real trick in all of this is separating true Catholic teaching from simple personal preferances.

Anonymous said...

Seriously?
You blasted McCain because he said Obama is doing a good job? And somehow that's supposed to be "Catholic?"

As Catholics we are against abortion. Neither party has been able to overturn that in the past 36 years. But your anger seems directed only at one political party for this. If directed at both, one for their stated opposition to ensuring it will remain, and the other for only playing lip-service during elections to get the conservative vote, then I'd say you were being fair.

Seriously, I have yet to see your site post anything positive about Obama. Seems to be a huge chasm between the infatuation that the Vatican appears to have with most of his principles and values, and the lack of respect you show in those exact same principles. The McCain post is exactly why some of us know that this is a Republican blog instead of a Catholic one. We get it, we get it: to be Catholic means that we have to see everything Obama does as evil. Don't know how you 'argue' that.

In the meantime, you've bashed "the liberal USCCB," despite almost 90% of them having been appointed by Pope John Paul II. (What - wasn't he Catholic or conservative enough?) Seems there is a lot of anger directed at various parts of the Vatican as well.

You throw portions of some Encyclicals our way to back some of your claims, which is great. These writings are awesome, and I do appreciate seeing laymen enjoying them.

But your website continues to confound. In many ways you seems to be appropriately upset by the cultural war as seen by American's acceptance of abortion, sexified media, support of gay marriage, and use of embryos for research. That is awesome.

Then there is the part that seems far too comfortable with other cultural values that are totally at odds with Catholic thought, e.g. ensuring all Americans have access to health care, the widening chasm between the super rich and the poor, the appearance of blaming the poor for being poor, the belief that unregulated capitalism is the solution to many problems, and many other things.

Our Catholic heritage should continue being a thorn in the flesh of our consumer society. Here are two Encyclicals that come to mind that denounce the inherent evils in both communism AND capitalism.

1) "Sollicitudo Rei Socialis," which warns that economic development alone may not set people free but only enslave them more.

2) "Centesimus Annus: The Hundredth Anniversary of Rerum Novarum" which shows the Catholic church's "preferential option for the poor," and still criticizes both capitalism and communism.

It is totally fine and acceptable to do what the Vatican and our Popes have done in the name of their Catholic faith, i.e. to be critical of both. I just find that your blog continues to criticize one without touching the other. To me, that is being a cafeteria Catholic. If you were consistent, you wouldn't switch the basis of your arguments from being a Catholic to being a free-market capitalist. There is a HUGE difference, and it is disingenuous to continue to confuse the two.

FUn said...

I know how to irk you even more. I'll call you something that begins with an "N" and ends with an "O."

Actually, I'll leave that to duLac's wife. ;-)

cp said...

Anon at 11:49 says

"Seriously, I have yet to see your site post anything positive about Obama."

I am serious when I ask you to give an example of something positive to post. I do not believe there *is* anything, but, perhaps you can enlighten me.

Anonymous said...

Scott: Don't tell me - oh, please let me guess.

You're one of the few! Right? Come on, you can't hide that Christ-likeness from us. . .

dulac90 said...

You probably hate immigrants, too.

Anonymous said...

CP. Here are some examples of things that the Vatican and Obama see eye-to-eye on, and are a stark contrast to the Vatican's testy relations with "W" Bush:

1. The Iraq War. Pope JPII denounced it in the most extreme ways possible, using the same language He uses for the evils of abortion. Obama shared the exact same values here. Other shared values:

2. Concern for the World's Poor.

3. Nuclear Disarmament.

4. Engaging in Dialogue with Islam.

5. Seeking a 2-state Solution to the mideast crisis.

6. Concern for the world's refugees.

7. Using a multi-national approach to resolving world conflicts instead of acting as what some Vatican officials called "W" - 'a rogue cowboy.'

8. Genuine concern for Africa and her struggles.

July 10 - Pope B will be meeting with President Obama. Yes, they disagree on abortion, but the two are willing to have an adult dialogue instead of an infantile hatred of each other because of a major disagreement on one issue. (We in the States should follow the Pope's Christian example here!)

Pope B stresses the importance of dialogue. The Vatican continues its almost 2,000 year policy of trying to advance the ball with every leader on the planet through dialogue. Cardinal Rigali who understands the Vatican's wisdom, is seeking to work with Obama on matters of health care for children and families, concern for the poor, and reducing the number of abortions.

Finally, it is of note that Pope B will offer an encyclical just before the next G-8 summit. (The reason for Obama's European trip.) In it, He will address the world's financial crisis. He will remind us that capitalism has basic flaws, and that economy should work for the common good of people instead of the inherent greed of the few.

CP - Will we find you protesting and denouncing Pope B for these values He shares with Obama?

cp said...

Yes, yes, our current president claims to be "concerned" about certain issues, but that is certainly nothing *positive* for the Timman to post about.

Anon, it must have taken you a very long time to formulate your thoughts and put e-pen to e-paper. I applaud your efforts.

Anonymous said...

CP - Thanks for noting the time and effort here. Wish that the Timman might spend equal time trying to understand the Vatican's shared values with Obama instead of simply trashing our president every chance he gets.

Everyone knows the media can be selective in what it chooses to print. I'd like to see this website continue to be a thorn in the side of America's culture, but wish it were equally applied.

Obviously the Timman "gets" the cultural war in terms of abortion, gay marriage, etc., but seems far too comfortable with capitalism, his belief that 'free markets' will solve most of our problems (which obviously, in terms of health care for children and families it hasn't), and his belief that less taxes is somehow a shared Catholic value.