30 July 2009

Signs of Things to Come?

The above photo is the vaunted Mayan Calendar, which we are told by New Age types portends the end of the world in 2012.

This link, on the other hand, takes you to a study text of the vaunted English translation of the Order of the (Ordinary Form) Mass, which we are told by ecclesiastical bureaucrat types portends the more reverent celebration of Mass in 2011, or some time thereafter.

Which prediction will come to pass first-- or ever-- is yet to be seen.

Meanwhile, the ancient Roman Rite of Mass, the texts of which have been largely unchanged for 1500 years, and nearly completely fixed for more than 400 years, is still there, never quite being squelched by liturgical terrorists, "reintroduced" slowly but surely over the last 25 years, and gaining popularity at an increasing rate in the last two years.

However, there continues to be slow progress on the promulgation of the more accurate English translation. And this is a very good thing. Whatever one's ritual preference, the Church benefits--souls benefit-- from the proper and dignified celebration of Mass. God deserves to be worshipped with the best we have.

Some readers may be familiar with many of the improvements in the current version of this translation. Examples include rendering "pro multis" in the consecration formula as "for many" (which is of course exactly what pro multis means); a much more accurately rendered Gloria and Credo; and even a much better translation of the Roman Canon (the largely forgotten Eucharistic Prayer I).

Take some time and scroll through the study text, especially if you are a regular novus ordo attendee. Pray that it is promulgated in our lifetimes. Finally, pray that the translations are actually used, and that liturgical abusers are called to answer for abuses.


Anonymous said...

You know, it just doesn't help "dialogue" or your reputation when you use the term "liturgical terrorists" to describe those with whom you disagree.

Were thousands of people slaughtered here? Was there a bloody attack on an innocent population?

PLEEEZE, save the nuclear terminology for when it is truly needed. Debating English translations of Latin words taken from the New Testament written primarily in Greek, from our Savior who spoke Aramaic just doesn't need such terms.

thetimman said...

Fair enough on your larger point that my terminology isn't dialogue-inducing. I meant it to be whimsical, but you are right.

However, just to be clear, thousands of people--millions, actually-- were gravely harmed by the liturgical destruction of the past forty years. Souls being lost are far more serious then even people slaughtered. And if you wonder if I think that the purposeful mangling of the Mass caused souls to be lost, I answer yes, indeed.

So, I apologize for the provocative language. I don't back down from pointing out the damage caused.

God bless you.

Anonymous said...

After reading the RED parts I have this to add..

23. "Standing at the Altar"
29. "Facing the people"
127. "Turned toward the people"
132. "While facing the people"
133. "Facing the Altar"

So then we can assume the correct way to celebrate the Ordinary Form is to face the Altar with only THREE times the priest is directed to face the people. ??

Very interesting! Folks, read the RED it explains a lot..

Thank you thetimman for telling me you posted this.

-Your friend

Anonymous said...


You got there first, and well spoken, in response to "PLEEEZE".



Anonymous said...

"Liturgical terrorists" is correct. Obviously, anon either (a) agrees with them, or (b) has no idea of what it was like in the sixties.

Read this and remember it well. I lived through it, and I tell you what it was like in both the Archdioceses of New York and Newark. The new mass was shoved down our throats. The priests and religious by 1970 were tired of people coming to them saying the same thing: "Father (or Sister), I don't like the changes in the Church at all."

Compassion? Understanding? Forget it! "If you don't like it, leave!!" So, we did; some sooner, others later. The straw that broke the camel's back "for many" was communion in the hand.

There's a lot more that can be told but you get the point, I hope.

There's much evidence to label them "Liturgical terrorists" and worse. The death of an immortal soul is infinitely worse than the slaughter of thousands.

TGL said...

Concerning your response to the first responder, you certainly have a right to your opinion on the liturgical changes brought on by Vatican II. My opinion is that had it not been for those liturgical reforms, today's Catholic Church would be giving the Episcopalians a run fot their money in terms of numbers. Vatican II saved the Church from irrelevance. Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI were true heroes of the faith.

thetimman said...

TGL, I do appreciate your consistency of opinion on this matter. And your willingness to continue to follow this blog.

Seriously, no kidding.

But, man, I cannot come within a universe of agreeing with you on this one.

Anonymous said...

TGL: I'm the anon you disagreed with.

Quite frankly, at my age, I no longer argue with those that think like you because, well, I'm worn out and tired of your kind.

Truthfully, you have no way of proving what you said. Reminds me of the time that I heard a priest say "If the Mass had never changed, the churches would be empty." How he came to that conclusion I often ponder considering the new mass emptied the pews.

"Vatican II saved the Church from irrelevance." My husband will enjoy that one!

As Michael Davies (requiem aeternum) used to say, "Well, it's an opinion!"

Long-Skirts said...

"...is still there, never quite being squelched by liturgical terrorists, "reintroduced" slowly but surely over the last 25 years.."

Yes, the True Sacrifice of the Mass has been "reintroduced" to many of you but only by the sacrifices of many great Alter Christus/Priests who continued to PRESERVE it like St. Athanasius did in the deserts which, 40 years ago were hotel rooms, school gyms, homes of large Catholic families...willing to confect the Holy Mass anywhere...Deo Gratias for those men:


Five times banished,
Exiled seventeen,
Excommunicated champions,
God puts at each scene.

Saint Athanasius,
Feast day of worth
On the second of May
The month of great mirth.

Out in the deserts –
As history has charted –
You preserved the true Mass,
Great lion-hearted.

Now Lefebvre,
And the sixties egalitarians,
Like Athanasius,
His time his Arians.

For He who abolished
Death by death
Sent him to absolve
Sin width and breadth.

And yes the same moon
The same sun we're all under…
We venal rain - but Lefebvre
Righteous thunder!!


TGL said...

Dear Anon
Actually, I wasn't responding to you at all, I was responding to the timman. But you're right, I have no way to prove I'm right and I'm not concerned enough with any of this to try. And I'm sorry you're tired of "my kind." If you're tired, maybe you should go to be.

Latinmassgirl said...


We can prove you are wrong, though. Before V II, the Catholic attendance at mass was over 75 percent, now under 25 percent. Catholic schools were larger and there were not church closings like there are now. There was not a shortage of priests and nuns either.

The church has gone downhill since then, as well as the morals of our world, I blame the new mass for the loss of faithful Catholics and then the loss of morals. The out-of-wedlock births has skyrocketed, and abortions, abortions, abortions!

Now, seminaries that are orthodox, especially the Latin mass orders are thriving. The Latin Mass orders have to turn men away because they don't have enough room for them.

You can't prove that the N.O. mass "saved" the church because it didn't. It hurt it.

jane chantal said...

Fwiw, with regard to the so-called "Spirit of Vatican II" making the Church more relevant:

As a child growing up in the 1950s and early '60s, I had a number of Catholic friends (my family was Protestant in background but didn't attend any church). They would often talk to one another about what they needed to learn for Catechism Class (as it was called) that week, what their moms were making for dinner on Friday, or what they were giving up for Lent. I couldn't relate to any of it, of course, but it was clear that being Catholic was a big part of their lives.

After Vatican II I never, ever again heard Catholic friends mention their Catholic identity, to me or to each other.


Athelstane said...

Hello TGL,

The difficulty is that the Church has not exactly flourished after the reform of the liturgy. Particularly not in the U.S. or Western Europe.

In the U.S., mass attendance has dropped from 70 to less than 25%; the number of seminarians still remains one tenth(!) of what it was in 1965; the number in religious orders has almost compltely collapsed. In the archdiocese of Boston we now face the prospect by next year of abortions outnumbering Catholic baptisms.

And bad as these numbers are, the Church in the U.S. is positively flourishing compared to, say, France, Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, Quebec, or Ireland.

So I have to wonder: How much worse could it have been?

And yet we see that in more traditional orders, and diocesan seminaries emphasizing more traditional formation and theology (led by solid bishops), vocations are not lacking.

I don't doubt that the Church would have faced difficult times had there been no Council and no liturgical or other changes afterward. The Church, after all, is part of society, not hermetically sealed off from it, and western society took a profound buffeting by the Sexual Revolution. But I seriously wonder if it would have been nearly as bad as it actually was *with* the changes.

Anonymous said...

Jane Chantal said:

"what their moms were making for dinner on Friday"

Aaaaaaaahhhhhhh, how I remember those days when the only "F" words we Catholic kids knew were "Fish-Fry on Fridays and Flinstones"!!!

Anonymous said...

From my own recollection, when VII ended in 1965 then everything went haywire. What I'm saying is that it seemed as if the "prince of this world" was waiting for another "fiat." Only this time, it wasn't coming from Our Lady.

Had the Church never changed the world would not as bad as it is today. The Roman Catholic Church men are responsible for all that you see. They sold us out and STILL refuse to admit they made a big mistake. As the Church goes, so goes the world.

The Catholic grade school I attended was the biggest in the archdiocese. We had three classrooms of fifty-sixty children in each for every grade. There were twenty-four Sisters and three lay teachers. Today? The school is boarded up. Closed about five years ago. Enrollment at closing? Seventy-five children in the entire school.

Thank you Vatican II! Saved the Church from irrelevance?

No Meat Fridays said...

Hey everybody who is remembering the "good times of Catholicism." Don't give up hope!

My children and most of their Latin Mass going friends talk about what is for dinner on Friday night. We affectionately call it Fish Friday. Many good Catholics who go to the ordinary form of the mass abstain from meat on Fridays as well.

Most homeschooling Catholics pray the rosary together as a family along with the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and other prayers throughout the day. We teach CATECHISM, yes, they even memorize it. We study the lives of the saints.

Most of our children dress modestly and don't know or care who the latest rock or rap singer is, or the most popular television show. They are morally innocent as children should be.

To make you really feel good. We are having babies much faster than the secular society. Six, eight, ten children, whose counting? More holy Catholics to fill the world!

Fr. Andrew said...

Off Topic

Timman- I hope you have read the new translation. I find it #1) more accurate to the Latin- especially when compared to German and Spanish translations of the Mass of which I'm vaguely familiar; #2) more noble in its use of the English language.

Together with the influence of SP on the wider promotion of the dignity of the Mass, this is a profound opportunity for true renewal in the Church. Pray especially for priests to be faithful in implementing this change.

cp said...

Check out St. Louis' own Ken Jones' book The Index of Leading Catholic Indicators for FACTS about pre and post Vatican II details.

A review can be found here:

Forget "opinions" and look at the numbers.