13 March 2013

Recess for Prayer

I will be refraining from any further analysis of the Papal election until I have spent some time in prayer and receive spiritual direction.  As one commenter on another site said, and the sentiments I get-- though I would not say it the same way: 

"I don't know what else to say or think right now. Disappointed, yes. Scared and afraid, absolutely.

And the name Francis I adds to my worries, because of the distorted view of St. Francis usually in vogue nowadays.

But we must receive the Pope in good faith.

Long live the Holy Father."


long pants said...

Oh brother. Spare us your dramatics. If this church needs anything right now it's the spirit and example of Saint Francis. Don't be such a cafeteria Catholic!

Anonymous said...

"Lord, we give Thee thanks for what Thou givest and for what Thou takest away, Thy will be done." -Pope St Pius X


thetimman said...

long pants,

I have come to depend upon your insights. Thank you for commenting.


thank you for your comment.

Anonymous said...

As a Franciscan scholar, I would be glad to help you understand this Holy Man. I wonder what you think is distorted about his thought - have you studied Franciscan documents?

Joseph said...

I find it hard to be disappointed with the Holy Spirit.

Anonymous said...

@ LongPants ... nice. Maybe you have your own flavor of social media to share that we can all enjoy? Most of us respect the thoughtfulness and commentary that goes into these posts. You can always go elsewhere ... NCR for instance.

Indeed, we redouble our prayers for the Church and for the Holy Father, and for Tradition. We should not forget to offer prayers of thanksgiving to balance our prayers of petition, for the Lord chose to provide us with Pope Francis in this time. I fear though, as with the Ersatz (yes, used as a proper noun), we have received what we deserved.


Former St. Louisan said...

Carlson:Burke::Francis:Benedict XVI

You in St. Louis know just exactly what the universal Church is in for. Nothing more, nothing less, I suspect.

That's just my two cents. No thoughts can be well-formed so close to an event such as this.

Jane Chantal said...

I'm not aware that there has been a statement re which Francis the new Holy Father has honored with his choice of name. Am thinking it is likely to be St. Francis Xavier, a Jesuit.

As for what we idiot Baby Boomers have done to disort the popular perception of St. Francis of Assisi, well...I don't think it has much traction these days.

MrsC said...

Yes, long live the Holy Father. The best thing is to pray a lot. I'm with you, Timman.

Alison said...

I have really and truly heard very good things from people that have worked with him. These religious describe him as being theologically with Benedict. They say he is the number one enemy of the Argentine socialist government. I trust in the Holy Ghost completely. I think commenting negatively this early is yellow journalism.

Pete said...

I don't have theological or moral concerns with Francis. Are you concerned that he won't continue liturgical reform? Won't support the EF? Will he be more of JP2? There is some question about his liberation theology views. It sounds like he's distanced himself from other S. Americans who got in hot water on that. He is much more international in his views. I was surprised at cardinals choosing a man of his age.

I really liked how he led the faithful in prayer after seeking our prayers, our traditional Catholic daily prayer of OF, HM, & GB. That means something to me.

All in all, he strikes me as a good and holy man. Can he administer the church? We shall see.

Alison said...

His first tweet was "Rebuild my church, said The Lord to St. Francis!!"

At least he is not St. Peter II.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I'm with Jane Chantal. Barring an indication from Pope Francis otherwise (and maybe he has said so), it is poor journalism to assume Francis of Assissi rather than one of the original Jesuits (Francis Xavier) as the namesake for our first Jesuit Pope.

And frankly, I would hope that we give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt in picking (a) the right saint, and for (b) the right reasons, conventional hippy dippy wisdom be hanged.

I realize the author is predisposed to have the stinkeye for Jesuits, but that's like painting all attorneys with the ambulance chaser brush, no? It's not like Larry Biondi was just installed as Pope Majerus I, after all.

SLPS Parent

Anonymous said...

Praying first is probably the best advice of all. Of course, here I go commenting...

I'm admittedly not a traditionalist (if I understand its usage on this blog correctly), so I obviously cannot fully appreciate the disappointed hopes of many for a champion of Tradition in the Chair of Peter. But let me float a trial balloon that, just as John Paul II was the right man to take on Communism, and Benedict was the right man to reengage secularizing Europe, perhaps Francis is the right man for his time as well.

Why? Because he already has a (positive) media reputation for simple lifestyle and profound concern for the poor, not to mention the fact that he's non-European. Yet, initial snippets indicate he is a conservative (at least, from the world's perspective) on social issues like gay marriage and so on. Thus, since his concern for poverty means progressive groups might not automatically shut out what he has to say, Pope Francis may be just the guy to broach the harder topics to these groups. If God has concluded, after eight years of Benedict's papacy, that Europe is simply too far gone, He may have decided to refocus on the New World, where such trends are in an earlier state.

I understand devotion to the beauty and timelessness of the Tridentene Mass, but I would submit its widespread attendance will be the culminating result of a "fixed" Church, not the first step in making that "fix". If Pope Francis required every parish offer the Traditional Mass starting tomorrow, that would not change the fact that overwhelming majorities of Catholics dissent from various Church teachings; it would only spark another wave of Church departures, with people muttering that the Church is (in their view) "going backwards". The Traditional Mass is simply too unapproachably exotic for most Catholics, much less potential converts from outside of the Church.

However, if the Church can engage the culture on the common ground of concern for poverty, then show that its moral teachings actually heal, rather than induce, poverty, then people will start to say "What is it about the Catholic Church that allowed it to be right on these things when the rest of society is wrong?" It is at that point where people will be open-minded enough to give the Church a hearing on its more intangible beliefs, which presumably leads to a better appreciation for the Mass.

Bryan Kirchoff
St. Louis

Anonymous said...


Thanks for your comments.

Please hire me. Make me a fair job offer. I promise you, I've got the credentials. I'll write a plan for the future of St. Louis that will show just how wrong you are. I'll even get the money to make it happen. We traditionalist are not idealists. Not me, at least.

All that stuff about the TLM being "exotic" is just hogwash. You just have to be committed and determined to making it happen. I know how to make it happen, not in the distant future, but right now.

Will you give me a chance?

I'll need some decent cash because I've got a bunch of kids. Are you interested?

Let me know and I'll contact you.


Concerned Catholic

Anonymous said...

SLPS parent wrote: "And frankly, I would hope that we give the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt in picking (a) the right saint, and for (b) the right reasons, conventional hippy dippy wisdom be hanged."

"Right saint" in whose opinion?? What should be the criteria for choosing a papal name?

What if he had decided to continue to use his own name?


Steve said...

Evidently some fans of this blog believe that there are "right" saints and "wrong" saints. So much for the communion of saints! If they approved of by you, they're the wrong types of saints!

Reassuring to see that some of you are willing to out yourselves so early on as more Catholic than the pope.

But no -- no one should ever view any of you as cafeteria Catholics. That label is just for those other folks!

And yes, I realize I'm writing into a void here. Probably this comment will not be published. Too much time and attention needed for other things, such as doubting the wisdom of the Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit's role in this conclave. (Full disclosure: I had a similar experience when Benedict became pope. But then again, I *do* consider myself an ambivalent Catholic; I *do* acknowledge that I dissent from the Church is some regards...something which at least some of you who have posted here would never acknowledge about yourselves.)

Anonymous said...

I agree on the confusion of the Care Bears showing up with no comments. . . .

With that being said, it's upsetting to see how people of the Extraordinary Form cause division in the Church. We are not Traditionalists. We are not Conservatives. We are not Liberals. We are not Charismatics.


I, for one, appreciated Pope Francis' humility.


Jane Chantal said...


Speaking for myself, I have no problem with whichever St. Francis the Holy Father has chosen to honor by taking his name -- why would anyone? The only concern I believe anyone may rightly have re the name-inspiration of St. Francis of Assisi -- our beloved 'Provarello' -- is with the likelihood that leftists will attempt to make our new Holy Father a political poster boy. From what I have heard thus far about the man, they would be very mistaken in such an attempt.

God bless our new Holy Father, Pope Francis!

P.S. No one need feel ashamed of fearing the toxic "progressive" mixture of leftist politics with hostility toward Church teachings on sexuality and the nature of marriage and family.

thetimman said...

MRS said:

"With that being said, it's upsetting to see how people of the Extraordinary Form cause division in the Church"

How is that? Anything short of unrestrained glee is causing division? I thought that division is caused by disobeying Church teachings, denying dogmas and such practical activity. But we see that no heretic in the modern Church has any need to fear discipline, and can always blame the division and confusion on angry trads who don't celebrate their novelties.

And, don't get me wrong, I am not calling you a heretic-- I am making a larger point based on what you wrote.

Anonymous said...

"unrestrained glee"? There is more to the Care Bears than that, I believe ;)

By division, I mean not acknowledging all the approved forms of the Holy Mass and understanding that we are not all called to the Extraordinary Form. I agree, there are many liturgical abuses, but we have many very holy priests that are doing their best to change the Novus Ordo to be what Vatican II meant it to be. If we want to convert and change others, we can't come off to them as better than them, we need to meet them where they are. ;)


Anonymous said...


"BUT the men signed of the cross of Christ go gaily in the dark...."

Not to worrrrry.


Anonymous said...

Janet, Steve:

Thanks you for the reminder that sarcasm, even when intended to be friendly, sometimes does not work well on the internet.

In charity,

SLPS Parent

Anonymous said...

Yes, this:



Jay Jr. said...

"By division, I mean not acknowledging all the approved forms of the Holy Mass and understanding that we are not all called to the Extraordinary Form."

MRS, please support this premise. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Jay Jr., I will not be able to do that, out of charity. I have many friends and family that attend the Extraordinary Form and I'm speaking from personal experience. Although there are some of these friends and family that have done much prayer, reflection and research and have come to me and apologized for their past behavior and for that I am thankful. I just pray for the others.