03 October 2011

Snup'ing around SS. Peter and Paul Can Be Depressing

Tina from Snup's View from the Back Pew has provided Catholics the invaluable service of assuring them that liturgical crimes are not the exclusive province of St. Cronan.  Of course, we are thus also assured that we can never say, "Hey, this is as low as they can go." 

Read the whole post.  Excerpts here:

When I first walked into the church I was dumbfounded.  Speechless.


Sts. Peter and Paul is over 175 years old I believe.  It has a long nave.  It was a very traditional looking church.  It's the same style as St. Francis de Sales.

What did they do to this church?  They ripped out all the pews and put them in a circle around some point, which they put an altar.  There's no sanctuary anymore.  Oh.  and then they put the pews on steps.    I felt like I was in an old autopsy room, looking down on an autopsy.  And because the pews were on risers...there was no way to get around them unless you cut through the "sanctuary" so if you wanted out, you had to move all over people.  Oh and there's no kneelers.  Let's take a look shall we?


...Eucharistic Prayer III and there were no bells.  Everyone stood throughout the Liturgy of the Eucharist (no kneelers).  There was handholding at the Our Father and lots of huggy and such at the Sign of Peace...
Thanks, Tina, sounds great!


Lily said...

Too tragic to be true. The photo had to be photoshopped. It's a joke, right? RIGHT? (Someone please tell me it's a joke.)

Long-Skirts said...

Gee it's good
To see ya...

(genuflect, genuflect, genuflect)

Doin' the Vatican
Doin' the Vatican
Doin' the Vatican

Anonymous said...

Yes Lily it is true. Msgr. Toebben must haave rolled over in his
grave when he knew of this.
I am wondering how the Church I grew up in had the okay from the historical committee of the archdiocese to do this to this beautiful (used to be)church.

Anonymous said...

How sad!

Peggy IL said...

How sad. I just had lunch with a woman religious who commented that they do full immersion at Sts P&P. The architectural style, though round, is deceiving. The columns, the windows, the reredos (spelling?), the icon on the wall are deceptively traditional looking.

Our IL parish is building a round church--about 40 years too late. I am worried b/c it is promoted as enabling a "contemporary liturgy" and the people's "participation." Time to vote with one's feet coming.

doughboy said...

I wish I could muster some indignation, but all I got is sadness.
No telling what Bishop Rice was thinking.

Anonymous said...

OMG - People are praying in a DIFFERENT WAY than YOU do!!! It MUST be a crime - quick, call the police and arrest these people caught in the act of praying!!!

Please - there is absolutely nothing Christian in your tone bashing the way others are in relationship with their heavenly Father. Something is seriously wrong here when you continue to take pot shots at Catholics in communal prayer and worship.

It makes me wonder what sort of prayer life you must lead - do you start every 'prayer' with "Oh God, I am so glad I am much better than the rest of the way those lowly people pray. In fact, God, the way they celebrate the Eucharist is criminal." And the rest of your time is spent criss-crossing between highly judgmental anger and bitterness at them, and self-righteous back-patting while you congratulate yourself for celebrating in the ONLY way you think God finds pleasing???

People vote with their feet - it's nice to see a rather full crowd of praying people, even if they are praying in a different way than you do. They are Catholics IN CHURCH, which in this day and age, should be celebrated by us all.

What next - are you going to start showing pictures of the criminal ways people pray in missionary sites across the 3rd world?

Disgusted at your judgmentalism

Anonymous said...

Yes, I really agree. You folks are so smug, last time I was here it was the horrific services at the Rock Church, then there is Mass in the Grass, how non Catholic and oh yes, the satanic rituals of Yoga Stations of the Cross at the Newman Center at Wash U. This is really the blog I love to dislike. I am so glad I am a fallen Catholic with your "Good Catholic" comments to bring me back to the fold.

Why does the Archbishop not all over these devil rituals? As discussed Bishop Rice was present, why did he not put the padlocks on the coven in place? Even your high potentate Cardinal Burke must have known about the Rock Church and its worship of Baal as their services have been going on for years. Yet, all these forms of worship remain. I attended Midnight Mass at the Rock in 2000, the church had people standing in the aisles. I bet the Cathedral was not even half full.

You all keep calling the original form of Mass and services so beautiful. I did not understand it when I was 10 and still do not understand it at 60. You all wonder why church attendance is falling off so bad. Look to your own remarks about Catholic Parishes that do not conform to your ways of thinking. Your smug remarks will not bring guys like me back to the Lords House, I promise you that. Amen Church?

Patrick Kinsale said...

It looks like a full crowd because it is a very small set of pews in a rather large church, so they are all jammed together.

Some of us who are newer to STL were spoiled by Cardinal Burke's love of the liturgy. We forgot it had been, and is reverting back toward, more modernism.

Bishop Rice strikes me as a good man. Let's see what he does here since his visit.

William said...

Anonymous @ 04 October, 2011 17:41:

Ah, go soak your head!

Anonymous said...

When Michael Davies was visiting St. Louis a decade ago, he wanted to go inside Ss. Peter and Paul, which looked so magnificent from the outside. We warned him, but he insisted. He was heartbroken over the interior destruction. He joked that we should sneak into the church later and dump a box of detergent into the kinetic baptismal pool, to start a bubble bath.

- Christophe

thetimman said...

Disgusted and Amen,

I suppose one could reasonably point out that your intense disgust at my (and some readers, too, I guess) perceived smugness might sound a little smug.

But I won't. I feel sorry for you, as I do for all of us. You have become used to the type of ceremony we have been force-fed; it is the substitute for the immemorial Mass. It does not surprise that one could get used to it, nor does it surprise that to even countenance the idea that we have been robbed of a glorious patrimony in exchange for a bunch of ladies twirling around with some bowls of incense and then standing at the back of church with a petition to end illiteracy in Wayoutistan might be too horrific a reality to acknowledge.

God bless you.

Jane Chantal said...

The stadium seating is a nice touch. Inevitable, I suppose, in the relentless campaign to blur the line between worship and entertainment.

In the graduated tiers of seating, we have perhaps discovered the one instance in which hierarchy is still considered acceptable and even beneficial in some quarters :-)

Can nachos and beer be far behind?

Curious in IL said...

Amen Timman! I couldn't agree more w/ your post. BTW, what happened to people not posting anonymously? Why are they not posting a name?

-Curious in IL

Patrick Kinsale said...

One of the anonymous posters above joked that we were acting as it is a crime that this sort of liturgical abuse was taking place. I submit honestly without sarcasm that it is.

Progressive Catholics love to talk about their rights as Catholics. Well, Catholics do have rights, including the right to a liturgy at their parish that is reverent and thay follows the liturgical norms of the Church.

Parishioners at SS. Peter and Paul are having this right violated, with the collusion of their peers, their pastor, and apparently the chancery.

Father G said...

Wow! St Pauli Girls! Where's the beer!

(I couldn't resist...)

Anonymous said...

Patrick - interesting take on saying that the way Saints Peter and Paul's liturgical celebration is a "crime."

So, is the priest who has received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, and who has full consent of will committing a crime as well? Are you suggesting that the Sacrament of Eucharist is NOT a sacrament among this praying community, but a "crime?" That at our core faith, God must NOT be present at this sacred Mass because ... God does not approve of it based on your personal tastes and judgments???

The priest is probably the only person there who walks to this church - the congregation has to drive to be there, and indeed they drive far, just as those attending the EF form typically do. I'm not sure in what court of law anyone could argue that their "rights are being violated" when they have freely chosen this sacred space and sacred liturgy to nourish their soul.

Ahem... these are FELLOW CATHOLICS! I cannot imagine how you treat the rest of civilization if you levy such harsh condemnations against people praying in Catholic church that is a variation of the way Catholics have prayed for decades, and 2,000 years! (And I can only imagine how damning you'd be of the way the Mass was prayed in the catacombs the first few centuries after Christ was crucified!

Stunned by arrogant damnation of those who have a different CATHOLIC spirituality than us

Latinmassgirl said...

To the Progressives whom love the new “Theatre in the Round”:
I agree that one could misconstrue the disgust that some readers feel about the destroying of every last bit of Catholicism from a Catholic historical church as judgmental. I am judging this church to be ruined by the ridiculous Protestant changes it has endured, so I am unabashedly judgmental.

Now, as far as the kneelers missing - in Russia, the Russian Orthodox churches (schism with the Pope, but a valid mass) look impeccably Catholic without kneelers. Don't get excited, “Progressives”, they have NO PEWS either and stand the whole two hours throughout mass. That is how the Catholic churches of old were designed; so don't complain about some of us wanting a little bit of tradition kept.

Anonymous said...

To the collective Sally's at 17:41 and 19:33 - indeed, go soak your heads (why Sally? Because you give no name, so I made one up for you).

It's beyond distressing to see our beautiful Churches wretched of their beauty. Unlike many sterile Churches in our present age, these wonderful places were testaments to our faith because they taught our faith everywhere you looked. I could go down to Saint Francis deSales or any similar Church when my kids were really little and pretty much teach them the essential rudiments of our Faith simply by pointing out the sights available to them with a little explanation from me. Could you you do the same at Saint Catherine Laboure in South County, or the College Church on campus for example?

Sacred Heart in Valley Park, like Saints Peter and Paul, and many others have been raped of their beauty and significance. But this pillage has happened everywhere, even on the plains of Kansas in old Parishes that were built from the blood and sacrifice of Catholic immigrants new to those regions by their descendants and others who have traded the gold of their Faith for the pottage of the age. I have witnessed this first hand.

God bless them even more who hold fast to the beauty of our ancient liturgy and the beauty of our ancient Faith represented in the architecture that both excites and tempers the soul far beyond the innovation of dancing honyaks.


Patrick Kinsale said...

Anonymous 13:05, are you asserting Catholics do not have a right to a liturgy that respects the laws of the Church? SS Peter and Paul is a regular territorial parish church, so the pastor has responsibilities toward those living within the boundaries of the parish. We have non-territorial parishes set up for those who appreciate the Extraordinary Form, but none set up for those who appreciate liturgical abuse. What happens at these parishes is a liturgical hijacking of the parish from its proper parishioners.

Double Disgusted said...


"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord God in vain. I'm sure that goes for writing emails as well. So you can drop the insulting, Valley Girl sounding shout-out, and go confess. Hope I wasn't judgmental.

Badger Catholic said...

Father G: ROFL!